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Magic
Mar 18, 2006 4:27:26 GMT
Post by Yulad'ian on Mar 18, 2006 4:27:26 GMT
I like what ur sayin.... that then means in the charecter profile... u can put what ur a master/minor in... enabling other RPG'ers to see your abilities... Bella
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Magic
Mar 18, 2006 4:51:46 GMT
Post by Aleksandr Brovsky on Mar 18, 2006 4:51:46 GMT
Yeah, I like Arin's major/minor skills. I was thinking of a different system, but I like Arin's more. Here's the other system anyway:
Specific classes of magic:
Conjurer: can conjure objects out of thin air. Size/complexity of object based on power of character.
Example: Deodar grinned, as twin daggers appeared in his palms. "Come, it is time to die..." he leapt at Broken Nose.
Elemist: can control an element of nature (earth, wind, water, fire, wood)
Example: Domovoi glanced at his companion. "I have an affinity with Earth, you know. Even metal..." as he spoke, his hand gripped the locked door's latch. He closed his eyes momentarily, and the latch rusted and broke apart before Jaka's eyes. Domovoi pushed the unlocked door forward. "Now let's go find our friends."
Spirit Lancer: can harness his body's inner spirit, and shape it as he sees fit.
Example: "They're still alive," the girl muttered fearfully. Algar the Laywaster turned back to regard his recent victims, and saw Nance was right... they raised from the rooftop, as grim and dark as before. "We are doomed, then," Algar proclaimed. Trapped on the rooftop, with a three-story fall behind them...
"Not yet," Nance replied with a grin. Suddenly, spanning the gap from the jailhouse rooftop to Chemist Shop ((a shout-out, I know)) was a beam of softly glowing blue light. Nance darted across the spirit bridge, calling for the Laywaster to follow. Once they were passed, Nance's bridge dissipated, and the two hurried off into the night.
And etc, etc, as our imagination sees fit.
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Magic
Mar 18, 2006 4:59:28 GMT
Post by Arin-Skylis on Mar 18, 2006 4:59:28 GMT
I like what you've done. Perhaps we could work on some combination of the two ideas and see how that works? for example making your suggestions Spells within a category.
Eg. Conjour becomes a Minor level Shadow Magic. Multiple Conjour becomes a Major Level shadow magic. Spirit Lancer becomes a Major Level Holy spell....and so on.
Of course that wouldn't work with elementalist if the sub-catorgaries remain as I used for my exaple. Not that they would have to, it was just an idea. I'd like to know what everyone else thinks.
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Kira
Regular
Self Proclaimed Angel of Death
Posts: 119
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Magic
Mar 18, 2006 5:20:54 GMT
Post by Kira on Mar 18, 2006 5:20:54 GMT
As long as Dark magic will be made available to Kira eventually, I'm happy with just about anything else.
Just a question, Arin: I got most of the categories you suggested, except one.
What does Blood Magic entail, exactly?
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Magic
Mar 18, 2006 5:34:44 GMT
Post by Arin-Skylis on Mar 18, 2006 5:34:44 GMT
I haven't a clue. Just an example. But now that I think about it, perhaps some really nasty stuff like giving people wounds that won't close, or filling their eyeballs with blood so they're blinded, or perhaps just control over another person through their bloodstream or something....
I hadn't really thought it through. I suppose we could come up with all kinds of blood related spells to add onto the list.
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Kira
Regular
Self Proclaimed Angel of Death
Posts: 119
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Magic
Mar 18, 2006 17:16:38 GMT
Post by Kira on Mar 18, 2006 17:16:38 GMT
Hey, maybe blood magic is just being able to do unnatural things with a biological form. Ex: Necromancy, pseudo-Frankenstein, etc.
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Magic
Mar 19, 2006 19:32:08 GMT
Post by Arin-Skylis on Mar 19, 2006 19:32:08 GMT
^^ Good idea.
You'd be able to think up your own spells anyway whichever way it turned out, they would just get added to the roster and people could learn the spells you use (and invented) by having witnessed them, or if they're common magic, just through training.
t would be nice of course if some were exclusive skills, like a signature spell that no-one else could learn. We could just add a spot for that in the charectar profiles.
Like tag on:
MAGIC: Light > Major: Heal, Minor: Holy.
SPELLS: Heal: blah blah blah etc. Holy: blah blah blah etc.
SIGNATURE SPELL: (and then this could be the exclusive one, not restricted to any catagory or anything. The more powerful it is, the higher the limit on useage there is too.)
It seems like there's a lot of support for magic anyhow...So let's get some more ideas in and then maybe we can start adding it in.
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Magic
Mar 19, 2006 19:38:43 GMT
Post by Zoltan on Mar 19, 2006 19:38:43 GMT
Ah, all this technical mumbo jumbo... In my younger days I might've been of some help. Now, however, I shall ponder on the story behind magic, which I find as important as anything else. Is magic something people love or hate? Or are there certain magic societies that are frowned upon whilst others are praised? How to obtain magical prowess? Do we travel far on perilous roads to find such power or do we learn it from Master of the craft in academies? Has it been around for long or is it still being discovered? Perhaps people still believe magic only exists in those songs of old and people who use it these days are naught but conhurors of cheap tricks ( ). So many questions I find important!
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Magic
Mar 19, 2006 20:06:17 GMT
Post by Arin-Skylis on Mar 19, 2006 20:06:17 GMT
I didn't even think about any of that Zoltan, at the minute I'm just trying to find a viable system for it to work in a fair, limited manner.
Any suggestions you have though would be welcome. You know we like to get the ideas of the people integrated into this forum!
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Magic
Mar 19, 2006 20:09:32 GMT
Post by Zoltan on Mar 19, 2006 20:09:32 GMT
Aye, I do. Perhaps my... so called ideas are come too soon. Forget what I said for the moment. the technicalities are being developed, I run ahead of schedule.
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Magic
Mar 20, 2006 3:13:13 GMT
Post by Arin-Skylis on Mar 20, 2006 3:13:13 GMT
OK so let me make this clear first and foremost (thanks Aleksandr for bringing this to my attention) However the spell system ends up working THERE WILL NOT BE ANY STATS. Stat based RPGing isn't right for this forum. Rather just a description of you casting the spell/it's effects as though you were just wrting a normal post of a fight or wahtever, it will be up to you to be reasonable with the effects the magic has on you, not down to you MP stat falling 20 points or your HP being drained or whatever. all we ask is that you be reasonable wth your useage and it's effects on the user.
With that cleared up, here's some thoughts from a conversation between me an Zoltan about the way in which you would earn the right to use magic/obtain spells/master in a category. (Due to the fact that we don't want everyone to be magical masters right away, and we also would prefer if not EVERYONE had some magical ability.)
This is a direct quote of what I said to him at the time, cos I'm too lazy to type it all again in different words.
So.....thoughts?
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Magic
Mar 20, 2006 5:45:04 GMT
Post by Aleksandr Brovsky on Mar 20, 2006 5:45:04 GMT
I was going to suggest a number of posts requirement, because if you've been posting long enough, you've (hopefully) earned the Admins' trust as a decent and reliable player. But I like the pass/fail writing requirement more. Gives people like me a chance (though I doubt Aleks will ever have magic. Maybe another character...).
The only comment I have is: okay, its really cool if you want to be a "Shadow-type" magician, and slowly learn all of the shadow spells, and after that you still have your "minor" type, so you learn Illusion.
But if you want to pick and choose, like you specifically like Heal and Fireball and Lightning, you would only be able to choose two of the three, as they are all different classes. Know what I mean? If one is a Heal Major and a Fire Minor, one cannot learn Lightning.
The way to get around that problem is to compile a tier system of spells, with three tiers. Tier 1: Novice spells. Anyone can learn a novice spell from any of the Magic types. Tier 2: Mage spells. You have to either be a Major or Minor in this art to learn that spell. Tier 3: Adept's spells. You have to have mastered your Major art to learn the Adept spell.
Adepts should be chosen based on: 1) character (as it makes sense for Blanca to be a Healer Adept, but not a Blood Adept (not to pick on Blanca)) 2) and a case-by-case review by an admin, just so their aren't too many Adepts running around (Kira should be able to become a Shadow Adept)
I think the Tier system gives someone a little more flexibility, so they aren't confined to two types of magic.
END TOPIC ONE. FLIP CASSETTE, PRESS PLAY >
I remember a while back Zoltan was, in his bumbling, rheumy-eyed way, bringing up the questions: has magic always been around, and we've just happened to never have a magician come by, or should magic be discovered through an epic, multi-storied quest? He, and I, chose the latter option.
Similarly, on another topic there is a friendly debate going about bringing in winged creatures. Why not kill two birds with one stone? (If you'll pardon the analogy) Have magic be discovered when we accidentally open a portal to allow an ancient, winged race to come into our world? The winged people are all magicians, but by them coming into the world, magic comes too, and other races can learn it.
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Magic
Mar 20, 2006 6:42:11 GMT
Post by Zoltan on Mar 20, 2006 6:42:11 GMT
Well, Aleksandr, that might work. Onlt then, these bridpeople will be... powerful. They master the arts of magic and soar down to teach us lowly forms of life? Why?
I shan't cast one stone, to avoid seeing one bird die and the other only get wounded. I'd rather cast two stones carefully and get it right. Agreed, if magic is included in the game, it will be a while before we all get a hang of it, I realize that. But if we haven't thought it through by then, we're not going to be able to control it. It's a big step. As for the cloud people. I like 'em, but we need more on them. And perhaps make them more normal.... Messengers, like you said Alek.
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Magic
Mar 20, 2006 7:47:49 GMT
Post by Arin-Skylis on Mar 20, 2006 7:47:49 GMT
*Gets a headache* XD
Aleksandr...The post count thing was my first thought too on the magic thing, but as I've said to Zoltan, the fact that we have post counts enabled in the off topic forums negates that somewhat. A person could spam to death in the forum games and earn the right to use adept level spells. Beyond resetting the post counts and turning off post rising in the off topic, it wouldn't work.
>>>>>Moving on.
The tier idea...I'm interested in this one in particular. I can see how it would be beneficial in being less restrciting....so let me get this right...
Novice level spells in EVERY category can be learnt by anyone, regardless of what they choose to major/minor in, and regardless of wether they chose the Light, Dark or Neutral magic division.
Minor level spells require you to have specifically chosen the sub-divsion in which the spell you wish to learn is, as your minor. Otherwise you are not allowed to take the test for this spell.
Major level, or adept spells, same as above. Only perhaps you should require a certain number of minor spell passes before you can choose a major.
...and then because I'm quite keen on a dash of originality....Three specific user created spells (not restricted to a catagory)...One for each level. These of course will require approval by the admin, and for you to have passed at least *insert as yet unspecified number* of magical tests....eg. Pass 2 Novice level magic tests and get to take the test for your user-created novice spell.
Thoughts on any of the above would be nice.
Also...Thoughts on the nuber of actual spells a user should be allowed to earn. I'm thinking the general consesus is going to be the higher up you get, the less spells you can know. so you might get 6 novice spells, 4 minor, and 2 major, plus your user-created 3 (one in each category).
...Phew....I hope that makes sense. Of course when we've got all this sorted, we'll pack it all into a little new-user friendly package that's easy to understand.
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Kira
Regular
Self Proclaimed Angel of Death
Posts: 119
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Magic
Mar 20, 2006 14:14:33 GMT
Post by Kira on Mar 20, 2006 14:14:33 GMT
Hey, would Novice spells have divisions as well? (Light, Dark, Neutral) If so, I think that something should be done to keep someone from creating a contradictory character that uses novice level light magic and Major/Minor level Dark magic. Just me, but I don't think someone could have gained powers from demons, devils, bad spiritual energy, and any other force of badness, and at the same time tap into powers offered by goodness.
Oh, and while on the topic, would it be possible to switch one's spell alignment during the course of the story? ex: A holy man in a church falls out of favor with his God, and loses the powers(Light magic) offered by Him. He then turns to Neutral magic, or, he might feel betrayed enough to call on evil powers in Dark magic.
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Magic
Mar 20, 2006 20:39:41 GMT
Post by Aleksandr Brovsky on Mar 20, 2006 20:39:41 GMT
Good point. With modifications, here's all the terminology, and how it breaks down. Major/Minor: The bicameral classification for Magic Branches. The only practical, listed difference between Major and Minor is that you can possibly become an Adept in your Major Branch, and learn an Adept's spells, but you can not with your Minor Branch. But an unlisted, social difference is in your skill level. Let's say a level 10 Major firecaster and a level 15 Minor firecaster square off in only Fire Branch spells. The magician Majoring in Fire would have the advantage, if not outright win. Magic Trees: Light, Dark, Neutral. Magic Branches: Holy/Heal/Water/Wind for Light, Lightning/Earth for Neutral, Shadow/Blood/Illusion/Fire for DarkSpells: The actual implimentation of the Magic Branches, obviously. Spells are divided into a Three Tier system. Tier 1: Novice Spells. Any magic-user can learn these spells, but there is a barrier between the Light and Dark ( Neutral is neutral, obviously). If you are a Light Tree user, you can learn any Light or Neutral Novice spells. Similarly with Dark and Neutral Novice Spells. Tier 2: Mage Spells. To learn these spells, you have to either Major or Minor in this Magic Branch. Tier 3: Adept Spells. You must Major in this Magic Branch, and have an admin 'pass' you for Adept-ness. There's maybe one or two Adept spells per Magic Branch. Tier 2+?: Arin wants to implement a custom-user system, where each magician may choose two-three signature spells. I think these should be treated as Tier 2, you have to Major/Minor in a Branch to make up spells within that branch. Otherwise, what Kira brought up will still happen. . . . . . . . . . . After doing this, I realized something. Well, two things. First, this system works if Light is good and Dark is evil, but if they're just "shades of gray" then there's no reason a magician can't be a Water/Illusion caster. I can see where Holy and Shadow/Blood would be opposed (in a PM to Arin, I mentioned Shadow being Holy's antithesis) but the the others can't be too vinegar/water-y. Oh, and the second thing I realized is I have no life. Cheers
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Kira
Regular
Self Proclaimed Angel of Death
Posts: 119
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Magic
Mar 20, 2006 21:07:00 GMT
Post by Kira on Mar 20, 2006 21:07:00 GMT
I have one last suggestion. I can see why Holy would stick to light magic and Shadow and Blood would stick to dark, but what about the other ones? Fire could honestly go either way, and maybe even Illusion too. Why would water be exclusively light, anyway? Is there a connection I'm missing?
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Magic
Mar 20, 2006 22:02:31 GMT
Post by Aleksandr Brovsky on Mar 20, 2006 22:02:31 GMT
Yep. A big one.
Arin constructed it that way, so that's the way it is.
But aside from that, it makes some sense. In most fantasy, and in real life Chinese philosophy, Earth and Fire are on one side, and Air and Water are on another. I suppose because Air and Water specifically give us life, they are good? And Fire is bad because of Hell. Earth could be bad, but it is neutral. A possible reasoning behind this is when electricity is grounded. So Earth kind of 'grounds' other magic branches, canceling them.
But yeah, Lightning and Earth are tricky. So they're the way they are because they're the way they are. Same with Illusion.
And as for your earlier post, which I only partly responded to...
I suppose it's possible to go from one Magic Tree to another, provided you can no longer use spells from the first. So, if you want to change a character's alignment, it's kind of a big sacrafice.
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Magic
Mar 21, 2006 5:10:43 GMT
Post by Arin-Skylis on Mar 21, 2006 5:10:43 GMT
Right so what I'm going to do is try and package this up into a nice easy to understand way and get the appropriate forums up. I've been given the go ahead by the Overseer to start things moving...
So let me see what I can come up with. Once I've written everything up, I'll open up the new forum for you all to read, then we can have suggestions for any changes posted here.
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Magic
Mar 21, 2006 6:45:10 GMT
Post by Zoltan on Mar 21, 2006 6:45:10 GMT
Fire creates shadows. Shadows are creatures of darkness. Hey, if someone were to ask this in-game, an answer like that would be cool. I think there should be three more characters: the absolute masters of Light, Neutral and Dark magic who decide wether you pass on tests and guide you through the proces. It means extra work for some, but it will allow us to guide the magicusers so that it doesn't go out of control. Otherwise I think it's over our heads.
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